ST303 12-7-08

This is not the full transcription. I haven't reproduced the sections of the Bible and Hislop's "Two Babylons", just given the pages used. Your individual research can fill out those sections.

THEME: stay tuned…..

OPEN: Hey, good morning and welcome to Straight Talk about God. I’m Jack. Are we supposed to celebrate Christmas? Some folks have done a little homework and found out that Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th. Also in this research, they have found that the custom comes out of the Pagan Mystery religion that started back some 4000 years ago in ancient Babylon. Well, when was Jesus born? Can we prove that he wasn’t born on Christmas? With a little homework, yes. Stay tuned. But first…

DISC: The views you hear will be mine and are not…..
UW: The following hour of RCR…..


For centuries the Church and its detractors have struggled with the controversy of the origin of many of the stories that are found in the Bible. The story of the Flood, the Trinity and the Messiah are prominent examples.

Because the ancient land of Sumer and Akkad or what we commonly call ancient Babylon existed somewhere around a thousand years before Moses wrote the first Scripture, it has been argued that the writers of the Bible just took the Babylonian accounts and fitted them into their own lives.

Even Christianity, they will say, and its “trinity” is of Babylonian manufacture. The early church just borrowed the Babylonian trinty of Nimrod the Father, Tammuz the Son and Semiramis the Queen of Heaven. A slight “adjustment” in the story results in God the Father, Jesus the Son and the third person being the Holy Spirit.

I’ve heard some Christians argue that the Babylonian trinity is Satan’s counterfeit of the Trinity of the Christians. But I’ve never heard any reasonable explanation of how that could come about. Interestingly, while I was preparing this program I heard just this idea on a Christian radio show. The pastor was teaching that it was well known by the ancient Patriarchs what was prophesied to Eve. Well, I agree with that. But he elaborated on the idea a bit by including the specific term Messiah. Certainly, Satan’s head would be bruised. But other things might also be inferred by the bruising beside the idea of a Messiah. The idea of a Messiah must include the human race, as the ones being delivered. The word Messiah is generally defined as “deliverer.” Moses is once called a “Messiah” in the New Testament.

But again, I don’t find that kind of specificity in the accounts of times before the advent of Babylon. That only takes up to chapter ten of Genesis. If God let someone know, before the Flood, that the bruising of Satan’s head would also include the idea of a Messiah that will save mankind, He sure didn’t put it in Scripture. When Nimrod and Semiramis started up the Pagan Mysteries, what did they have to go on?

Satan has been around longer than humans. He was there in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. At the time of the Fall, he was told by God that his head would be bruised by the seed of the woman. Some descendent of Eve would crush Satan, sometime in the future. That’s a pretty sketchy outline to go on. While this can surely be extrapolated out to be a Messiah, it can’t include the details that are included in the Babylonian Mysteries.

Christians readily accept the argument that the Babylonian trinity is Satan’s counterfeit, even if they can’t effectively defend the idea when challenged by a detractor. And, yes, I believe one hundred percent that Satan counterfeited much of the Bible before it was even written. But that belief isn’t good enough for the detractor, and he goes away with a sense of victory.

This is a good place to familiarize ourselves with that Pagan trinity. Ancient Babylon was first ruled by Nimrod, who was the great grandson of Noah. His father was called Cush, the man who effectively turned the Nile delta into farmable land by draining off the delta swamps. Mene is his most common historical name. His father was Noah’s son Ham. Mene was also the father of the man whose name was given to the Holy Land. His name was Canaan. The land of Canaan became the land of Israel.

You can find Nimrod in the Bible. Genesis and also I Chronicles name him. Genesis 10:8-9 has the account of his birth. His accomplishments follow in verses 10 through 12. “:he began to be a mighty one in the earth. Verse nine, He was a mighty hunter before the LORD;” Then next three verses tell about the cities he founded. His common name from history is Ninus. And when he travels to Greece, his name becomes Bacchus.

One thing about the personages of the Pagan Mysteries of the different cultures is that the attributes of the Gods are the same. The names differ from culture to culture, but the background stories and the deeds of the various gods is the same.

Here’s some input from Alexander Hislop in his book, The Two Babylons.
HISLOP: Nimrod=Ninus p23, 1-2; p22,1:
(10:33) Mom/son p20,1;
Nimrod/Semi p40,1;
Tammuz p21,1;
Semi – p58,1; death of Nimrod.

What did Satan know about God? He knew that there was a “separateness” that was God. There was also a second “separateness” called the Word. And he knew that there was a third “separateness”, a “Force” that was brought to bear on objectives.

Satan certainly knew that the Word was God’s express agency for creation and sustenance of the creation. He was right there witnessing the process. He was part of the process, doing his section of the “creation” and sustenance. One must consider what Satan’s responsibilities were, and are. Besides just leading the Choir, by the back door we can reason that he was also in charge of “tending” the earth. Paul calls him the “prince of the power of the air.” He offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth, which means two things. He had the right to do so, and secondly, that he would still be in charge of the whole thing and maybe more. And, of course, Satan knew that the Word was being incarnated on the human plain. With the history of God’s working up to that point in time, coupled with his knowledge of the Prophecy, Satan knew of the coming of Jesus. Good thing he didn’t have all the details. Otherwise Herod might have been successful in his Slaughter of the Innocents. This last point being, that Satan knew that Jesus was the Word.

That takes care of two of the “Separatenesses”. God and The Son. The Holy Spirit is easily seen. We must understand that the Word didn’t get out a shovel and pick axe to accomplish his task of Creating. What then did the Word use to create? The Spirit. God’s Energy is synonymous with His Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God’s Energy. So Satan could easily come up with a counterfeit system of a three-fold godhead.

Now, I don’t deny the manifestation in physical form, entities from a higher dimensional frame than ours. Angels do that all the time in the Bible. So, of course, fallen angles, including Satan, can do the same. I’ve said that Satan could walk right up to you and start a conversation and you’d never know it was him.

But I don’t believe that this is the way Satan usually works. I believe that he works more like God. God doesn’t walk up to folks, unless their name happens to be Abraham, father of Isaac and Jacob. Even in the Bible, God mostly just puts the stuff into people’s heads. Waking or many times sleeping visions. Many other times it just says the word of the Lord came to someone.

God talks to us in our heads. If we’re not careful, we’ll think that the thoughts are our own and don’t pay them the attention we would if we recognized they came from God. That might the times when we get some little inspiration to do something but don’t follow through. And maybe later wish we had. “Oh, what a neat idea. I should do that!”

If God had manifested a human form and presented Himself to us in such a way that we knew it was Him, then what would we do to implement that little idea. Get out a pad and pencil and write a reminder. Do that, then call a few friends to tell them you just talked with God and were going to do “Whatever.” Drop everything you were doing at the instant and, after giving respectful leave of God, go get started on the project, not matter how it intruded on your life. I’m sure you’d treat the communication a lot differently.

Satan has the ability to insert thoughts, sentences and pictures into our minds. Whether we give permission for that insertion or not, at the lower levels Satan can give us thoughts. We won’t talk about possession. That’s an obvious circumstance. But we have to understand that because a person is not possessed that doesn’t mean not influenced. Satan has many different ways that he tries to exert influence on human kind, but the most intense is the actual insertion of ideas into our minds. Liquor ads are pretty good and give us lots of psychological ideas, but there’s nothing like a thought. We perceive them as our own. Just like the thoughts that come from God, we don’t pay them enough attention to recognize where they come from.

If you wanted to set up an alternative religion, and had the ability to put ideas into people’s minds, wouldn’t that be a preferred way to communicate? You might throw in the occasional vision, just to keep the person focused, but the major part of the system would come from them writing it down, formulating the parts, giving them some foundational truth.

After manifesting the basic outline of the belief system, either by a physical manifestation or through some “prophet” in a trance state, the filling out of the system would require constant injection of ideas as the writing took place. Didn’t God do that very thing with the Old Testament prophets and other writers of the Bible books? What else can mean the phrase “inspired writing”?

That brings us pretty much to the answer of how the Pagan trinity predated the Christian trinity. Satan knew enough to construct that broad counterfeit.

As to Satan’s deciding on the date for the birth of his phony messiah, my guess is that he used one of the broad markers of the environment. One of the changes of season was readily available. Sping would have been OK. It typifies new earthly life. But being that worship was to be diverted from God to something else, why not use the one thing that mankind knew was a sustaining force of life? The sun.
And what better time of year to typify the saving of man by a messiah than the rebirth of the sun at the winter solstice? I’m not going to talk about the slight discrepancy between December 25th and December 22. Years were measured differently back then. An interesting side note is that some have figured that Jesus’ conception took place on the date that Satan chose for the birth of his messiah. Wouldn’t surprise me. God does stuff like that. Pharaoh said “throw all those boys in the river”. That’s exactly from where God brought the “deliverer”, Moses.

Time to prove that Jesus was born in the fall, around the end of September-beginning of October.

68 Luke 1:24-49; :5: Zacharias course was the 8th of 24
93-1: Xmas starts in 3rd century
93-2: Tertullian
93-3 Isis – Yule day
94-1, 2: moon worship be Arabians
95-1, 2: birth cakes-set tables for child
96-2:HOGMANAY IS So. Scotland-set tables
96-3 Babylon, Tammuz is God incarnate(and sin)
96-4: feast of Saturn
97-1: wassailing bowl-candles-tree-Yule log
99-1, 3: mistle toe – boar/Tammuz
100-1, 2: Diana/Venus & a boar; Saxons/Romans offer a boar.
101-1, 2: goose-Bab/Egypt/Rome; Asia minor/India
102-2: Cybele before Jesus birth.

[[Here's a little chart showing the difference in names from different cultures]]Pagan Names.bmp - 774530 Bytes
1-Again, Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th. He was born on Rosh Hashanah, the feast of the Trumpets. This is the most reasonable date, as it coincides with the redemption symbolized in the blowing of two silver trumpets at this Feast. Silver, in the Bible, always symbolizes redemption.

2-What we celebrate as the birth of Jesus should rightfully be called Tammuzmas, not Christmas.

3-Many folks talk about putting Christ back in Christmas. I say, take it out altogether and just take advantage of the holiday to have a family gathering. You could have your own celebration of Jesus’ birth on Rosh Hashanah.

4-There’s a lot more talk on this subject over at Straight Talk about God. We’re at 88 Briceland rd, in Redway. The number there is 707 923-ALLY (2559). Or on the web at stag.ws. Check out the radio archive while you’re there.

5-I’ll be back here on January 6th. I trust you’ll be there too.

6-There’s only one real God. That’s the God of the Bible. This is easily confirmed by following up on what He has said. He always comes through.

This is Jack, bye.

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